As The World Turns Discussion Group

Topic: Can we all stop now? (spoiler re Monday)

Janet had no contact with her family for EIGHTEEN YEARS, and she was a teenager then. How on earth was she supposed to know? Who in their right mind thinks "gangster" about someone they remember in the distant past as a beloved family retainer?

Not so sure about Teri, who was around for all those eighteen years Janet missed, but it's entirely possible she didn't realize either.

A bad wardrobe, an Italian name, a New Jersey accent and money to spend doesn't automatically make someone a gangster. Aren't there enough legitimate reasons not to like Janet without making some up?

Of course Janet and Terri's parents should have known about him. Apparently they'll banish their pregnant teenage daughter but have no qualms about about bringing a mobster around and making him their daughters' "Uncle".

The days ahead should be quite interesting, and then we'll find out more about the sisters, what they know, what they don't know, etc. Why is Terri so eager to shut Dusty up whenever he mentions her Uncle Ralphie and his mob connections.

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it seemed like Janet would rather turn in her own husband that her Uncle Ralphie...|soul

That's how seems to be leaning. /mia

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Posted by: Bertha
Date posted: Mon Oct 26 16:56:45 2009
Message:
While I realize that Janet had a lot to take in at one time, it did not seemed like she acted very surprised that Uncle Ralphie was responsible.  If someone told me that a relative I have always loved had done something that terrible, I would have been in shock and disbelief.

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I could not agree with you more. SANDY B

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Posted by: Allison
Date posted: Mon Oct 26 16:36:34 2009
Message:
My teenage daughters haven't a clue what the professions are of our adult friends, they may not even know what many of their real aunts and uncles do for a living. And I have a good friend in construction who always seems to be able to solve my problems. Ok, they're usually in the area of the home improvement but he definitely has that air of being able to handle anything. If he got arrested tomorrow for being a mobster I'd be completely stunned and I'd hope no one would think I should have known. Who would think something they knew and loved was part of the mob unless they had clear evidence sitting in front of them? I presume he never cut off someone's pinkie in front of Janet and Terri.

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Sometimes deductions can be made based on things not being ''right'' about a person. My sister dated a guy who was from Sicily, could barely write and speak English, was 25, had moved to the US at the age of 21, and had already ''run'' and sold 4 successful businesses while in the states in the span of 4 years after coming to the States. 2 of those businesses were resturants and 2 of those businesses were in ''sanitation and disposal'' where he held local government contracts (again, the guy could barely speak and write English). At the age of 25, he had a loyal group of fellas who followed him through every busness venture, drove a different sports car everytime she saw him (only 2 dates but geeze), carried a gun and was continuously getting taken in for questioning or arrests for minor incidents which necessitated him cancelling two of their dates. Now I'm not going to say that the guy was ''connected'' or in the ''mob''...but I sure had my suspicions and I told her as much. eom Linny

P.S. ''A bad wardrobe, an Italian name, a New Jersey accent and money to spend doesn't automatically make someone a gangster.'' In a recent episode of ''The Office'' a guy with an Italian name and a NJ accent came in to sell Michael (the office manager) insurance. Several of his workers quickly concluded the guy was from the mob and that if Michael didn't buy the insurance he'd end up swimming with the fishes. Needless to say the guy was not connected, but much hilarity ensued before this was made clear. eom/Allison

The gun alone would have made me suspicious of that guy Linny. Why anyone needs to carry a gun who isn't in law enforcement is beyond me. eom/Allison

Regarding bad wardrobe, John Gotti dressed in expensive suits--he was always dapper!

Bingo, Allison. At age 17 I doubt my own daughter even understood what *I* did for a living. Kids just don't care all that much about the adults in their lives, except as it affects them personally. If it's not something basic like fire fighter, police officer, doctor, dentist etc., they don't get it and they don't bother to get it. Particularly a teenage girl and a male family friend who just happens to be called *Uncle.* *Uncle Ralphie is a businessman* would have more than satisfied Janet's curiosity. eom/D

I beg to differ, being Italian and in a large entourage, I have heard far to many stories about G-Men and their R.I.C.O. investigations, grabbing completely innocent Italians in for questioning, SOLELY by their outer appearance, i.e. bad wardrobe, bold jewelry, money, friends, and carrying licensed guns. And these people who were brought in for questioning were told outright by R.I.C.O., 'well you look the part.' Insanity!!! 'you look the part.'

Oh, and a p.s.: God forbid if you are a restaurateur, own a pizza store or have a construction company .... you ARE an easy mark for R.I.C.O.

Uh...yeah, being from another country and owning 4 widly successful businesses in as many years by the age of 25 with little or no business experience, barely finished the equivalent of high school and with little if any command of the written english language and no rich familial connections to speak of....uh...yeah...I'd question it...especially if he owned a gun and was regularly stopped for questionning by the police about his business associates and other related matters that he didn't care to share with my sister because, ''it was best if she didn't know too much''. Very questionable to me. I'd question it if he came from any country. Under these circumstances, he just happened to have come from Sicily. eom Linny

Allison, the gun was a clue to me as well. Unfortunately, I had to lay out all of the other ''signs'' that the guy wasn't completely legit or the luckies SOB on the face of the earth to be 25 with no formal education, no rich family background, no decent written English skills (I read an email from him that was not drafted by his secretary and it was completely incomprehensible)...it all seemed to stink IMO. She finally got a clue when he cancelled one of their dates using one of his phone calls from jail, explaining that he'd been held up because he mouthed off to a cop when he'd been stopped on the way to the theater. eom Linny

Linny, those circumstances were extremely questionable and you had every right to connect all the dots. What a scary situation !!! Your sister has a fine sister. /mia

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Posted by: gallyn
Date posted: Mon Oct 26 16:22:57 2009
Message:
I'll split the difference and acknowledge Janet's ignorance, but not excuse it. Jan may have been gone for eighteen years, but she obviously knew Ralph---had been around him all of her life. Living in that community, there had to be rumors and people who knew exactly how "connected" Ralph was.

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Posted by: julia
Date posted: Mon Oct 26 16:11:23 2009
Message:
I guess I have to partially disagree. It seems to me that Janet does know very clearly that Uncle Ralphie is a bit of a thug - she seems pretty clear on the concept that he can get things done in ways that aren't exactly by the book. I noticed that Jack didn't point that out to her, at least he hasn't yet. I'm hoping he will and he'll begin to wonder exactly what kind of woman he married - especially given her response to the whole Liberty pregnancy thing.

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That's exactly my point julia. Janet knew something wasn't square about Ralphie otherwise why would she expect him to have any influence over Paul and Emily w/r/t adopting the kid. She didn't turn to a lawyer or even a social worker. She turned to Ralph, a guy with conceivably not influence over Paul and Emily who have absolutely on incentive to listen to this stranger if he was a legit business man. She knew what kind of ''motivation'' Ralph had and that's why she aimed this thug at Emily and Paul. eom Linny

Yes, I think you said it better than me - she used Uncle Ralph as the muscle. And Paul pointed that out to her. If she wanted to get the baby legitimately, or stop Paul and Emily from adopting the baby, she would have hired a lawyer. ht

Of course she turned to Ralph. It was Ralph who made the arrangements in the first place. It was Ralph's lawyer who brought Emily and Paul together with Liberty. Ralph is her *uncle* who seemed to want the same outcome she wanted, and was already up to speed on the whole situation. Who else would she turn to? eom/D

Who else would she turn to? Talk to Jack and hire her own lawyer to see about an adoption. If she and Jack adopted the baby, they'd need a lawyer or at least a social worker, I'm assuming. Janet was nasty about the whole thing and I am convinced she knew who she was siccing on Paul and Emily. In my view, she knew Ralph wasn't legit and any means he used wouldn't be legit. ht

I'm with ht. I'd turned to a lawyer or a social worker or CPS (given Pemily's background) before I turned to my ''uncle'' in construction to ''talk'' complete strangers into ''changing their minds''. eom Linny

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Posted by: Linny
Date posted: Mon Oct 26 14:57:44 2009
Message:
Sorry.  I haven't watched yet, but based on what we have seen, Janet's protest of ignorance either proves that she is monumentally stupid, engaging in intellectual dishonesty or a bit of both.  The kinds of "favors" she was asking a "business man", the fact that she requested that this "business man" "influence" Paul and Emily into not trying to adopt the child and the fact that Paul came right out and told Janet that he didn't appreciate her sending "Paulie Walnuts" over to threaten him and Janets smirking plea of innocence all point to very strong evidence that Janet knew that Ralphie was a bit of a thug.  She might not have known that he was a murderous thug.  But she did know that the man was not exactly a straight laced business man.

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I don't think anyone would ever suggest Janet was the sharpest knife in the drawer. The kinds of favors Janet asked Ralph were exactly the kinds of things someone close to Lucinda might have asked her to *fix* for them. Paulie Walnuts? Ralph looks and sounds the part, and it's not beyond the realm of possibility Janet thought that's what Paul was referring to. Somewhere someone even suggested that Janet is responsible for Brad being shot and Jack should blame her, because after all - she has a relationship with Ralph. My point is there was never a solid reason to think Janet knew what Ralph really is. It was a real reach to assert that she did. eom/D

I don't think anyone would have sent Lucinda over to someone else's house, especially if that someone was a complete stranger to them, to ''influence'' them into not adopting a baby. Janet knew that ''Paulie Walnuts'' influence was of the ''bullying kind'' and a bit on the thuggish side. As I said before, when Paul confronted her, she smirked and lied about not knowing what he was talking about. I don't agree that Janet is responsible for Brad getting shot. However, I do think that Janet is guilty of ''aiming'' a thug at Paul and Emily in order to get what she wanted. eom Linny

I must have missed it when Janet asked Ralph to threaten Paul and Emily, or when he gave the slightest indication that was how he planned to handle it. eom/D

You did miss it. We all did. Janet said she was going to ''call Uncle Ralphie'' so that he could ''take care of this''. They never showed her on the phone with the thug. Next we saw him visit Paul and Emiy not once but twice and both times he openly threatened them. No I don't think that Uncle Ralphie is a psychic that knew that Paul and Emily were going to adopt Liberty's kid or where they lived without any help from Janet. I can also assume that Janet was the one who told him that she didn't want this to happen...again, he's not a psychic, someone had to tell him all of this and ask a ''favor''. Now once Paul came over and came right out and stated that Ralp aka ''Paulie Walnuts'' had threatened them, Janet didn't look surprised in the least. In fact she looked rather smug and statisfied with the results of that visit as she happily tore up both the contract and the check meant for Liberty. I didn't need to see Janet rub her hands together in conspiritorial (sp?) glee as she phoned Uncle Ralphie and asked him for a ''favor'' to know that she knew that she was essentially ''aiming'' this thug at Paul and Emily in order to ''influence'' them into dropping their attempt to adopt Liberty's kid. Given that Uncle Ralphis is not an attorney, not a social worker and doesn't know Paul and Emily from a can of paint I can't imagine why Janet would think that Uncle Ralphie would have any ''influence'' over Paul and Emily other than that of the ''bullying thuggish'' variety. eom Linny

There are certainly other ways Janet might have thought Ralph could exert influence over the adoption. Like, for instance, get his lawyer friend - the one who set it up in the first place at Ralph's behest - to put the kibosh on it and blame their backgrounds. That's certainly something a person of influence like Lucinda might do if asked to *fix* the situation. Honestly, I don't see how it can be ASSUMED Janet knew Ralph would employ thuggery. eom/D

That's the point, she didn't rely on the lawyer Uncle Ralphie referred her to, she relied on Uncle Ralphie. There's a big difference IMO. If she'd called the thug and asked for the name and number of the lawyer, that would be one thing. She didn't, she called Ralph, not once but presumably twice. She expected HIM to fix this, not the lawyer. And again, she didn't bat an eye when Paul informed her that Ralph had paid him a visit, NOT the lawyer. Clearly, Janet expected help from Ralph, not someone who is professionally trained to handle adoptions. She relied on a guy in construction, not a social worker or a lawyer. Mighty fishy if you ask me. eom Linny

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's most likey a duck. I suspect Janet has a pretty good inkling that Uncle Ralph is a duck. Look - even Terri, dip that she is, had the decency to feel sick over what Ralph did. She seemed very upset. Not Janet. Janet grossly under-reacted to learning about Ralph's involvement. ht

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