As The World Turns Discussion Group -- chasing or saving?

As The World Turns Discussion Group

Topic: chasing or saving?

Topic Posted by: MartyB
Date Posted: Sat Nov 14 14:16:38 2009
Additional Comments: I have read with some interest by some posters who are catagorizing Carly trying to help, save or rescue Jack as chasing. Carly is not doing this to destroy Jack"s marriage or have an affair. She is the only person ho really cares about him & loves him. She is also the only person capable of getting through to him & have him come home safe. For this viewer it's not the same old situation with J&C. In contrast I wished Jack had brushed aside his overbearing wife & that idiot Craig while Carly was plunging into alcoholism.

Posted by: AlirisFan
Date posted: Mon Nov 16 15:51:24 2009
Message:
Come on Marty. Carly's interest with Jack IS TO BREAK UP HIS MARRIAGE! Did you notice the glint in her eye when she realized Janet was too committed to Liberty to chase after Jack? Did you notice the fact that Carly was barely chastened by Janet's reference to "abandonment of responsibilities" with respect to her own children? I like Carly (albeit NOT with Jack), but the essence of her character from the beginning is about her agenda. Even her kids come second to whatever scheme or plot or vice she is entangled with at the moment. I know you want to root for CarJack, but don't ascribe some benevolence to Carly that isn't there.

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Thank you, thank you, thank you !!! **

Posted by: Allison
Date posted: Mon Nov 16 11:22:55 2009
Message:
"She is the only person ho really cares about him & loves him." Bulls**t. There are plenty of people who love and care about Jack, including his real wife. But unlike Carly, Janet isn't going to desert a daughter who needs her to chase after a man who has made it perfectly clear he wants to be left alone.

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Your'e wasting your time, Allison..so many of this group will defend Carly no matter what she does.*

I blame the amazing Maura West. If she played an axe murderer she'd probably find most of us rooting for her ;) eom/Allison

If Janet loves Jack so much then why did she go after the guy with a vengeance for the two beer consumption & place the blame squarely on his shoulders for the death of Brad. I have no problem with the discussion but it became janet's mantra. Janet chose her idiot daughter's premise that Jack was drunk when he shot Brad. She has never corrected that assumption. In addition prior to this we had to deal with Janet's bulldozing Jack into adopting Liberty's baby against his better judgement. jack was an afterthought & not a husband. Janet loves the respect & credibility that this marriage has given her & she has a nice place to live. Janet loves Jack on her terms & conditions. Parker & Sage love their Dad but right now are incapable of helping him. Holden has other things on his mind & Emma is nowhere. So even a Jack hater would have to admit that right now Carly is the only person who not only loves Jack but is willing to help him in his darkest hour. That's the way it is. Marty

My point is Jack is an adult. Not only doesn't he want Carly's help, he's actively running away from her. That isn't love that's obsession. Sage on the other hand is a child and needs her mother, who doesn't even seem to recognize that fact. You've brought up far more points than I care to address, but as to Janet bringing up Jack's drinking, love doesn't mean you never call your husband on his distructive behavior. eom/Allison

Sage and Parker need their Mother ! She's so busy dreaming up ways to get Jaack she can't see past her nose ! Whatta' pathetic woman !! **

Posted by: pita
Date posted: Sun Nov 15 12:45:16 2009
Message:

Isn't she doing both? She's chasing him to save him. She IS chasing him because he's running away - so all those who want to see Carly as a homewrecking slut can focus on the chasing part to the exclusion of the fact that not one but two people exhorted her to either come to or go after Jack because he is "in trouble."

She's ALSO legitimately frightened by how reckless he's being. She's knows him well enough to know better than anyone that Jack doesn't know how to live with a 'failure' of such massive proportion. She knows he's got a death wish going at the moment and that should be terrifying for anyone who truly loves someone who's in that dangerous place.

So it's both, which I for one wish were not the case.

Do you think the earth would tilt on its axis if the show EVER wrote the J&C dynamic so that for once, Jack was the one 'chasing' Carly?

I can understand that now wouldn't be that time since he's married and they've had such a history of him pushing her away - I understand there would have to be some groundwork laid for that shift to make sense. But, for the love of Pete, is it just outside the bounds of the laws of physics, reality or the human condition for them to EVER put Jack in the supplicant and wanting position?

Posted by: Mia
Date posted: Sun Nov 15 8:51:21 2009
Message:

She may try and convince herself and others that she is saving Jack, but in the deep recesses of her inherent nature, you'll find the chase button alive and well preserved.

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No, No, No !! Must not criticize Carly ! That's against the rules ! **

Same way you are about Katie, B.B.

Yes, yes, yes, one can always criticize Carly for there is enough about her to criticize. But that doesn't stop me from loving her to pieces. There is enough good about her to love her to pieces. Same goes for Janet - both are great foils for soap opera enjoyment. /mia

Wrong again, Bertha ! I have criticized Katie when she's been wrong (the latest was for being stupid about Uncle Ralphie)...The posters who have on the rose-colored Carly glasses give her a pass from being a slut to lying about a terminal illness.**

I love Carly and I do not have Rose colored glasses on when it comes to her.. I actually have criticized her quite a bit but, when I see others do it then I jump to defensive mode and want to defend her for anything and everything. No one has said you should not criticize Carly.. I certainly never said that. I think though, that we get frustrated, although I cannot speak for everyone... sometimes BB you seem to say something mean about her in every single post that even has her name mentioned. It is your business and no one is telling you to stop but, you have to understand that Carly fans will get annoyed with that at some point. eom

MM, you are right and you probably won't believe it, but there was a time that I found Carly to be fun and quite entertaining...that all ended when the terminal illness sl came around...It is totally unreal to me for a character to lie to family and friends about dying....that is not forgivable , IMO..especially when she did it to get Jack away from Katie. I detest this character and wish nothing but bad things for her...sorry, that's just the way I feel. **

Posted by: Midwest Meredith
Date posted: Sat Nov 14 22:30:41 2009
Message:

She is trying to help Jack and bring him home. The only reason some are questioning her right now is because they hate her guts. Carly can do no right with some viewers. Carly could jump in front of a speeding car headed for a group of children crossing a street and yet, some people would accuse her of doing it for selfish reasons.

I think the writing has been pretty clear about this since Carly came back. Carly is being written as being all in love with Craig and heartbroken over his affair with Rosanna. Carly is not still after Jack... at least not at this point. The compass was just a way to show that Carly still cares about Jack .. to me it was a symbol of Jack finding his way back home to his family.

Carly has been back two weeks and since her return it has been non-stop Carly bashing with some on here. First, she was a terrible mother for chasing after Jack.. let's not forget when people were complaining about that, that Carly was gone for maybe 8 hours and then returned right home to her kids. Now, it is... Carly is chasing Jack because she still wants him.. she is a horrible homewrecking slut.... right??? Some totally dismiss that Parker wanted her to go after his dad... he was worried about him and told Carly he didn't think he would ever come home. People seem to be judging Carly for things she did before and not being fair about the storyline we are seeing right now. Pure hatred can cloud judgment.

I totally get that some hate Carly... hate away. I have not been thrilled with this storyline and in some ways I do see it as Carly chasing Jack but, not in the way some accuse her of... she is chasing Jack because he is running from everyone.. not that he is just running from her. It is a totally different circumstance than it has been in the past. I guess for me I was just hoping for something different.. something better. I was kind of hoping that Jack would actually want Carly around and appreciate the fact she always seems to be the one who truly cares about him. Carly loves that man unconditionally... even when she accepts that he is married and even when her heart is wrapped up in Craig, her instinct is still to want to help him... it is actually a rather unqiue kind of bond but, not a romantic one. I agree with you Marty.. that Jack should have had that same instinct when Carly was drinking so heavily... sadly, he did not seem all that interested unless Carly drove drunk or something and then it was more of a judgmental instinct and not coming from a place of love.

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I read my reply again, and I think it came across as kind of snippy.. and I certainly did not intend it that way. I just wanted to apologize right up front in case anyone is offended or turned off by the reply. eom

snippy? Hardly. Carly has stepped up to the plate here because Janet couldn't or wouldn't & Parker asked her to & this is who Carly is. I wish Jack had shown the same attitude to Carly when she was plunging into alcoholism. she would have spurned him just like Jack is doing now. i think TPTB are trying to level the playing field with J&C. it's their attempt to illustrate not only their strengths & weaknesses but hopefully reunite them with a new perspective. the other difference between Carly & Jane is that her children & herself need Jack to come to terms with his life altering tragedy. Janet cares about Liberty solely & those two beers. Marty

MM, I think it was sensitive of you to realize the tone of your message might be seen as snippy. The question I pose is: Since you (IMO) have a passion to see Jack and Carly reunited, can you not see that other people feel just as passionately that they should not be reunited? And believe it or not, there are people who really don't care either way. There are people who just think this is a crappy story line./mm

It's OK to be a litle snippy when you feel passionately about a topic. You were not rude or inflamatory, just stating your opinion which is what this forum is for, from one MM to another./MissM

This will sound weird but, I am not sure if I do want a Carjack reunion... I actually would love to see Simon and Carly back together but, that is not going to happen. I adored Carjack for years.. I still think MW and MP have the best chemistry together that I have ever seen personally. So, I am torn.. I want a reunion but, I want it to be exactly the way I want or else I am not so sure that I want it.. does that make sense? lol

I too would rather see Carly and Simon back together. You're right...it isn't going to happen. I'm still not too crazy about this roadtrip, but I do see a more mature Carly right now. I'm sorry to say I can't say the same for Jack who is trying to make up for killing one baby's father by doing things that might leave his own kids fatherless. I think that this is very self-indulgent and thoughtless on Jack's part...so far. I was with him w/r/t the Ben Franklin thing even though it bothered me that a man with 3 kids who desparately need him would consider suicide before considering professional help. Now that the man has endangered his own life twice as well as the lives of other drivers who could be fathers as well, I'm not crazy about Jack indulging in the same behavior that he claims got his brother killed. eom Linny

Posted by: fatima1
Date posted: Sat Nov 14 22:24:44 2009
Message:

Well, in defense of Janet, and slightly off topic, I have to give her some credit for not chasing after Jack right now. Her daughter is in crisis and in desperate need of attention right now. Yes, Janet handled the pregnancy thing badly with Liberty. But she is her mother, and Liberty should be her first priority, even over Jack. And I really think Parker needs to back off Liberty somewhat. Yes it's nice he's her friend, but he is a kid, not Liberty's parent. I'd like to see Parker with more of a normal life, friends, dating, school activities. His sole purpose shouldn't be helping Liberty get through her various crises. Besides, his life at home is more or less normal now, at least as normal as it will ever get with Carly as his mother.

Okay, fine, let Carly chase, rescue, help, comfort whater with Jack. After all, she is the only person on earth who really understands him and knows and gets him. I'm sure we'll be reliving this scene with one of Jack's future wives anyway, becasue as we all know, no other woman can love Jack the way Carly does.

Posted by: pita
Date posted: Sat Nov 14 18:52:41 2009
Message:

I agree that she's not specifically chasing him in the sense that she's doing this with the conscious thought that she's going to try to wrest him away from Janet and reunite with him romantically. I think her primary and conscious motivation is that she's confused and worried about him and she's getting the "death wish'' vibe and she's afraid of what he might do.

But ... this is Carly we're talking about and she's spent most of her adult life seeking Jack's approval or reaching out to him to bring him closer or back in or back to her. It's always been part of their dynamic and in recent years it's become pretty much their only dynamic. Jack is withholding and retreating and Carly is putting on the full court press to reach him and crack the self-denial he clings to.

So, maybe she's 'saving' him this time, but unfortunately, it's so close to the same old same old -- Jack being heroic (even in his dispair and identity crises the show can't let go of Jack being some kind of superhuman do-gooder), and Carly trying to get him to connect with her - for whatever reason.

Maybe it is different this time - supposedly so - but it doesn't LOOK much different than it always has. That last shot on Friday of Jack peeling out and leaving Carly standing in a cloud of dust to call after him in desperation was just way to close to the same old same old bone. At least for me.

I wasn't imaging that this road trip would be THE reunion of them or anything - I get that it's supposed to be the thing that allows for the start of movement toward one another, but even more than a reunion what I really, really, really want to see is a REAL departure from the equation that puts ALL the power in Jack's hands and all the reaching and yearning in Carly's hands - for WHATEVER reason whether it's about saving him or nailing him, I don't care. I'm just sick of it always being Jack who's unreachable and Carly who's desperate.

Posted by: Bertha
Date posted: Sat Nov 14 17:57:11 2009
Message:
I agree with you Marty. I think she is really concerned about what happens to him. Another poster said that she didn't believe that Carly was concerned after her little talk when Parker said he wished someone would help his day. I believe there was a reason for that scene--to get Jack and Carly on the road trip.

Posted by: gallyn
Date posted: Sat Nov 14 17:02:13 2009
Message:

IA with you Marty---Carly's not chasing Jack for herself, she's trying to reach out to Jack without any romantic "agenda". Jan's made it clear she's not going, but that doesn't by default mean Carly's pursuing him that way. In fact, when she did talk to him, she deliberately put everyone else who "needed" him ahead of her.

We all know how Carly is when she schemes. There's nothing subtle about it. I doubt she'd be trying to prod Jan into going after him or waiting for Parker to press her into searching for Jack if she was "after" him.

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WOW !! What a selfless, self-sacrificing woman that Carly is...NOT !! How'd the compass get there ? Just jump in her pocketbook ? She's on a mission and compassion and caring have NOTHING to do with it !**

Well, given that Carly doesn't even have much of a clue that Jack's marriage isn't rock solid (not having gotten the skinny on the fact Jack's been whipped by his haranguing wife throughout the abortion/adoption debate), and she seems pretty PO'd about Craig---if all your ''evidence'' is Carly taking the compass with her, I'd say your hypothesis is weak to say the least. What a surprise....NOT. gallyn

BB, it is hard to believe that you see Carly as so black and white- but are able to make allowances for, oh, I don't know, KATIE? LOL Do you really think, at this point, Carly is bound and determined to get into Jacks drawers and break up his marriage, and that is why she went running after him? IA with gallyn that, so far, Carly does not consciously have a romantic agenda. Carly is alot of things but she is not the predator you would make her out to be. If things go as they always go with these two, you will have plenty of time to run Carly down, I just think, at this point, it is a bit premature. When Carly is plotting there is no room for debate, she is plotting. I have not seen any of that. Yet. LOL /dandyfop

I'm just relying on past actions...she goes after any male of the moment no matter whether married, enagaged or not...thought I'd beat the rush and jump early...not really..she's no more concerned about Jaaack's mental health: she got dumped by Craig so to save face, she's after Jaack ! Typical Carly !!**

Pshaw. I know you love her. /dandyfop

Oh, NO !! You found me out ! LOL !!! BB **

Marty, I recognize that the topic was not about Jack's *couple* of beers; but sometimes it is difficult to discuss a character's actions without touching on the cause. His actions are the reason for Carly's, thus the discussion on 'chasing or saving'. I maintain 'chasing' which has historically been true, and I see no reason to believe that it is not true now. As someone else (and I wish I could remember who and where) said, there are those of us (few in number) who enjoy the SL and don't care one way or another if Jack & Carly reunite or not. It OK with me if they do OR don't./MissM

MissM, I realize you're talking to Marty down below---but I maintain that Carly has no intent to wrestle Jack away from Janet while on this ''journey''. We've seen her plot and scheme multiple times to hook Jack for herself. And from my perspective, Carly's seemed very reluctant to insert herself into the situation. I think during the alcohol story it was very clear Carly was not running to Jack with her problems (or allowing him to ''fix'' them as she did with Craig). She's ''advised'' Janet to go after him; she seemed reluctant to step in until Parker told her Jack still looked out after her (by wanting to tell her of the affair). If she were scheming she sure wouldn't need Parker's pleas to spur her on. gallyn

I can't believe you seriously buy into that crap ! She woulda' found a way to rationalize running after him you know it whether you'd admit it or not .**

It's what viewers call ''paying attention to the show.'' *eyeroll* gallyn

I'm missing the point of the eyeroll...is it for emphasis ? effect ? sarcasm ? what ?...it''s totally ineffective as far as I'm concerned. LOL !!!**

Emphasis, sarcasm, effect, utter impatience at such childish antics, your insistance on making a complets pest of yourself for no OTHER reason than to BUG anyone who's vocal in supporting Carly, Jack and Carjack......take your pick. gallyn

I have given my reasons for the total disdain I have for the character of Carly, but in case you missed it I'll repeat...I liked Carly for a long time.. I found her to be fun and entertaining....but when the deception came about the brain tumor, and she lied to her friends and family, having them believe that she was dying, for the soul purpose of breaking up Jaaack and Katie, that was it , for me. I have been through a similar situation and I found nothing to root for her or wish her well ever again. She the lowest of the low, IMO. That about does it ! If you like her, fine...I don''t and never will.

Posted by: Miss Marple
Date posted: Sat Nov 14 16:10:12 2009
Message:
No, Marty. I'm afraid that you're seeing what you want to see. From my prespective it seems Carly IS chasing after Jack, and using Parker's concern as an excuse to do so. Jack is an adult, although an immature one whose world is falling apart because he killed his brother while attempting a rescue without backup, and firing a gun into a room where he had no visual line of sight; knowing that Katie was a hostage. Even if you think that a "couple" of beers (which should mean two, but is often used when speaking to others to cover up the truth) did not impair his judgement, he made a bad decision and is the proximate cause of his brother's death. But back to the topic of Carly chasing Jack, did you see the look on her face when she looked at that compass, which incidentally I thought was shattered? She is only angry that Craig hooked up with her sister, and possibly humiliated and embarrassed, not broken hearted. I thought that little egotistical game she played with Craig was disgusting and reminded me of her seduction of Mike Kasnoff #1 when he was engaged to Roseanna. I was glad that Roseanna mentioned that the other day. Carly loves Jack always has, but now she is going to use him to strike back at her enemies, both real and perceived. I am not liking Carly right now (although I adore Maura West), nor do I feel sorry for Jack who has apparently bailed on his wife, whom he professes to love, and his children. I know Janet is unpopular here, but Jack is treating her with no respect. Carly needs to rebuild her own life before she starts building others.

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Thank goodness there is at least on other poster who gets what Carly is all about !! Chasing Jaaack is what she has always been about and to say that she doesn't have an agenda where he is concerned is sheer fantasy....how about the fact that she *just happened* to have the COMPASS with her....geeze ! And even though Jaaack is married that means nothing to this coniving sleeze !! What is really stupid is that he'll treat her the very same way he has FOREVER ! **

oops...sorry for the double !**

Miss M., I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Although I love the character of Carly, warts and all, this doesn't seem much different than Carly's usual MO. I'm also happy that you brought up Super-Jack's treatment of Janet. And I agree that Janet is not popular here, but she still is Jack's wife and up until this latest flap has always been supportive and forgiving of him. There probably will be the *BIG* reunion between Jack and Carly, but once again it will probably come at the expense of Jack's wedding vows. (The name Katie ring a bell?) I really like Michael, and there have been times when I liked Jack, but he is certainly no paragon of virtues. He is as flawed as any character on the show, and for fans to pretend otherwise is laughable./ Cricket

this post had nothing to do with Jack's culpability in th death of his brother. that's a forium beaten to death. i will say if it wasn't for Janet's Uncle Ralphie would have killed Katie & Jacob as well. certainly waiting for back up would have worked - NOT. now to the original post Carly is not going after Jack to jump his bones. the compass is symbolic but in this case I believe it is to bring Jack back safe. Jack is totally alone now. his idiot wife abandoned him at his lowest point & even gave sanction to Liberty poiting the finger at Jack as being totally responsible for Brad's death. I hope Jack kick Janet & Liberty's asses out wher they belong. right now there is not one iota of an agenda from Carly other than bringing Jack home safe & sound. condeming her for that is kind of wrong don't you think? Marty

Carly's agenda is alive and well !! She could care less that Jaack's married.Her motives are NOT pristine I can assure you.**

Miss Marple, you say that Jack is showing Janet no respect? I am no Jack fan but her loud harping every five minutes about the two beers when he was grieving his brother was uncalled for. He should have gotten away from that big mouth the way he did.

See, this is what I don't get. Jack DID have a *couple* beers before the shoot-out. Now whether that caused any impairment in his thinking or actions, I don't know, and won't speculate, but evidently it caused Janet, and I think Jack too, some worry. If she's upset about the situation is she not supposed to bring the subject up? That's not much of a marriage if she's afraid to talk to Jack about something that caused them both to worry. Janet did not go out of her way to tell Liberty. Liberty overheard them talking. I'm not defending Janet's *personality* here, but couples should and do talk about things that they are upset about. Topics shouldn't be off limits just because the guy in question is Jack. Of course Janet was upset. She had a history with Brad and he was Liberty's father. Is she not entitled to be upset and not have all her emotions under control at all times simply because it might upset Jack? Janet has always worn her emotions on the outside for everyone to see. Like her or not, that's who she is, and that's who she was when Jack married her. /Cricket

I am with you on the two beers thing Cricket.. and I hate Janets trampy hide. The thing is, Jack was drinking, he obviously felt weird about it or he would have told Margo right off the bat. He didn't, that would naturally make Janet wonder. I know if my husband did not disclose it it would make me wonder if HE thought the couple of beers was something to hide. And if not impaired, why hide it, shame? Maybe, but it would still give me pause. Janet is a selfish insensitive harpy- but I can't fault that instinct to question WHY Jack held back on admitting he was drinking. It does not matter if Jack KNEW he was not affected by the drink- he should have disclosed it immediately./dandyfop

He didn't admit it to Margo because of his EGO...he is MUCH too wonderful , not to mention, perfect to admit to any discretion ! That's our *pure as the driven snow*, ST. JAAAACK !! **

forget for a moment Janet's obsessing about Jack's two beers. where & how did she react to her Uncle Ralphie who is responsible for this tragedy? how come she hasn't hunted down the thug in prison? why hasn't she told Liberty about her Uncle Ralphie using Brad as a human shield & would have killed Katie & Jacob? that's because Janet was very much aware of who & what he was. when Jack returns & his grief has come under some control that's a convesation I want to witness. Marty

Amen, Marty ! **