D....perfectly said! You save me from having to type just about the same response.
Posted by: Oakdale Oldtimer
Date posted: Thu Oct 8 10:42:57 2009
Message:
mm, why not just start a topic titled "Please Slam President Obama. Thank you." It's pretty clear that you're hoping to get a whole bunch of anti-Obama posts with your topics. Well, most of us recognize that President Obama and his advisors know more than we do, and they are treading carefully in a world where relationships between countries can turn on a dime.
While I may not agree with everything he does, I think he is a helluva lot better than what we had for the previous eight years. The one thing that Bush was good at was creating problems that have no good solutions, and he left all of those problems for Obama to clean up. It's going to take time. President Obama has a lot to deal with and he will make mistakes. But I'm confident that he will make far fewer and far less destructive mistake than Bush did.
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LOL. Well, if that was my purpose, (which it wasn't BTW) it certainly misfired./mm
mm, I can see that you are just trying to get a reasonable discussion going. It's too bad that your topics stir up such defensiveness by other posters. I enjoy your topics and don't see you as someone who is trying to stir up trouble or bash Oboma. Something Dinnis Prager said on talk radio was the Liberals live in a fantasy world and see reality as what they wish it to be not what it really is. Those were his words not mine. So if anyone is upset by them throw the rotten tomatoes at Dennis. J.
Thank you, Janie. I must say, I was really upset at the thought of the Dalai Lama being dissed. I have a step son who is a Buddhist. I have also visited Thailand several times and met Buddhist monks. As a teenager, I took a strong interest in Tibet. Always wanted to go there. I must admit, though, that the imp in me feels a bit smug that President Obama has fallen short of what many people expected. For me, he hasn't fallen short. In fact, he's pretty much doing just what I expected. He's a human being, not a god. And for anyone who thinks it is unpatriotic to criticize the current administration, that's hypocritcal at least and very scary at most. HIstory is full of examples of what happens when people unquestioningly follow someone and when the press is squelched./mm
*HIstory is full of examples of what happens when people unquestioningly follow someone and when the press is squelched.* How true, we wake up one morning and find ourselves mired in places like Iraq./Cricket
Ain't that the truth. eom/D
I find your mimicry to be mean spirited and frankly beneath you./mm
I don't understand who you feel mimicked whom eom/D
Who is *Dinnis Prager*? My, he sounds totally unbiased. He must be trying to be *Fair and Balanced*!/Cricket
Sometimes an agenda just can't be disguised. If I'm not mistaken, it was Janie who was appalled by Michelle Obama dressing all in black to meet the pope. Never mind that every other first lady in recent memory has also dressed all in black to meet the pope. Somehow when Mrs. Obama did it, it was *different* eom/D
And what about you, Dolphina? Are you saying you don't have an agenda?/mm
Certainly not. I don't try to pretend that I don't. eom/D
So I guess I don't understand why you are criticizing Janie./mm
Only because she claims to be *neither right nor left,* when there's a bias that's pretty darn clear. I believe *goofy* was the word used to describe Michelle Obama's appearance at her papal audience, for dressing exactly the same way every other first lady dresses for the occasion. Where did THAT come from? The most generous interpretation is political bias. I chose to be generous. eom/D
Well, I absolutely don't see it that way at all. It was a comment on fashion, not politics. I get so tired of people quoting posts that can no longer be seen or verified. They are in the past. Why bring things like this up when discussing the current subject? I do believe that Janie, (like me) tries to see both sides of things. I enjoy her posts, but she doesn't post as often as I'd like and I think one reason is that she doesn't like confrontation. I think there are a lot of people out there like that and it is a shame that their voices aren't heard./mm
The post in question is still on the scroll, at the very top. eom/D
Sorry, I don't feel the need to visit old posts. I still don't think it is relevent to the topic we are discussing./mm
Posted by: Sammie
Date posted: Wed Oct 7 21:00:13 2009
Message:
What are you trying to get started? Obama's critics and the Republican party will try to find fault with anything Obama and his staff does. It is getting ridiculous. It is the same way every time the Democrats are in office. When the Republicans are in office the Democrats never slam them as much as the Republicans do the Democrats. And I don't want to hear from anyone saying that the Democrats must deserve it or they would not get the bad publicity. That is not so. The Democrats just don't fight as dirty as the Republicans. The American people need to stand behind Obama and give him all the support they can. He came into a terrible mess and he and his staff are working very hard to get our country straightened up. I don't think any president has ever had as many challenges as Obama has in their first year of office. I feel very sorry for Obama and his wife. They deserve better than what they are getting. It amazes me that so many people think they know more about what is good for our country than the president and his staff. There is a lot that the public don't know about, and it is probably best that we don't. So why not let the people that know more than we know make the important decisions and we give them all of our support and prayers.
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Sammie, did you click on the link and read the article? Did you notice it was from NPR? I hardly think you can say that NPR is the voice of the Republican Party. I do agree with you that we should support our President and pray that he succeeds in his endeavors. My problem is that he campaigned as a person who was going to effect change. And now he realizes that he hs to make compromises. JUst like all effective presidents have done./mm
mm, I said the ''Obama Critics'' and the Republican party. I was on a rant last night and I came across a little strong. I was very irritated when the news media was wondering if Obama's popularity would take a nose dive since he was unsuccessful in getting the 2016 Olympics in Chicago. How could the public be so dumb!! Then he was criticized for bowing to King Abdullah. That makes him a muslim! He is criticized for not changing the country in the first six months, taking a vacation to Hawaii, etc. I could go on and on. I am surprised he is not criticized for taking too many bathroom breaks. Ohhhh, sorry, here I go ranting again. Anyhow, I can understand you bringing up this particular situation because it is a complex one. However, I trust the President and his Staff are doing their best to make the right decisions and believe the Dalai Lama would understand. I think what got me going was your words ''White house shuns the Dalai Lama.'' I was assuming those were your words?? / Sammie
Well, I'm not really sure if those were my words or words from the article, but I purposely said ''White House'' and not ''President Obama'' because I am pretty sure it was done at the advice of such counselors as Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel. BTW, he's Jewish, so that discounts people who say President Obama is a Muslim. Actually Sammie, I got this link from my niece who is extremely liberal. And I think the criticism for this particular thing will come from the liberals who really thought President Obama was going to enact their agenda./mm
Sammie, See inside re Dems bashing Repubs. J.
Janie, IMO this past election was one of the nastiest that I have seen. I wanted Hillary to be our next president and when I saw that was not going to happen I was leaning towards McCain because I thought Obama was too inexperienced. When I saw how nasty McCain and Palin were it did not take long for me to decide that I did not want those two running our country. If something happened to McCain, can you imagine Palin as the President of the United States of America? The thought is horrifying to say the least. That is one of the reasons I enjoyed watching Rachael Maddow and Keith Oberman. It was important during those times for the news media to put the Republicans in their place and support the Democrats. I lean more to the left, but I am not an extreme liberal. In fact sometimes I lean to the right. What I don't like is liars in politics, which is a big Ha, Ha! Palin is one of the biggest liars and one of the dirtiest politicians I have seen. I believe Obama is an honest man and even though he is not perfect and is going to make mistakes, we need to stand behind him and support him as much as possible. This country didn't get into this mess overnight but the American people want him to straighten it out overnight. The people who helped create this mess are the ones who are probably criticizing him the most. I am talking about the people who created all this credit card debt that 'helped' put his country in this big mess. The big spenders who did not care that there was a pay day down the road. Well, I am ranting again. LOL. Anyhow, I wish we did not have the party system. It would eliminate the left and the right and everyone would be independent. I hope someday to see a politician run on an independent ticket and win. Just my thoughts./Sammie
Sammie, it still puzzles me to hear people talk about Hillary Clinton's experience over Obama's. Obama held elected office four years before Clinton ever did. He certainly held elected office for many more years than George W. Bush had when he was elected president. Of course, when it comes to inexperience it's hard to beat the appaling choice of Sarah Palin. eom/D
Dolphina, I know a person who would make a good President and they have never held an elective office, but if he ran he would probably not get elected for that very reason. Having held an elective office is important but being first lady for eight years is very good experience. Especially when the first lady takes an active interest in what is going on, which Hillary did. Other first ladies who took an active interest is Eleanor Roosevelt and Rosalynn Carter. Obama seems to have a good staff and so far I feel he is doing a good job. I just wish the media would not question nearly everything he does. Now they are questioning whether he should have received the Nobel Peace Prize. I think it is great that he did. I am proud of him.
It's a very sad state of affairs. The right wing doesn't even bother trying to offer anything constructive to the national debate any more. Every ounce of energy is devoted to dreaming up lame-ass reasons to criticize anything and everything Obama says and does. It's a sad state of affairs, because we need a sincere and CREDIBLE opposition operating in this country. All we have is a snarling pack of hyenas, pandering to the most ignorant, gullible and prejudiced among us. eom/D
Janie: *Have you ever watched Keith Oberman or Rachel Maddow on MSNBC? I do watch them from time to time and I find them pretty nasty on dising the Right* There's a significant difference between MSNBC and - oh, say - Fox News. MSNBC, in addition to Olbermann and Maddow, gives a large forum (15 hours of airtime per week, I believe - 50% more than Olbermann and Maddow put together) to a conservative voice like Joe Scarborough. MSNBC routinely airs commentary by a conservative voice like Pat Buchanan. Fox, on the other hand - while touting itself as *fair and balanced* - doesn't feature one single high-profile liberal voice. Also, I don't recall anyone ever shouting out to a Republican president *YOU LIE* in the middle of a congressional address. I don't recall seeing any displays of jubilation from the left wing when a Republican president failed to accomplish something he set out to do for the benefit of the American people. There's simply no valid comparison to be made. eom/D
Posted by: Suellen
Date posted: Wed Oct 7 20:57:35 2009
Message:
I have no negative reaction to this-we will see the results after Obama's China trip I guess. BTW what does bother me is the fact that Obama/wife bows to our enemies. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WlqW6UCeaY
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The Saudis are our enemies? We should probably stop taking their money in that case and someone should have told #43- he loved those guys to bits- enough to give them a big wet kiss. LOL. This is so tired and silly. /dandyfop
I believe the opposite
I read it Suellen. What would you like me to take away from that? Certainly if we were not ruled by the need for their oil and their support of the petrodollar I am sure our gloves would come off; but as your article says - *for at least the next two decades, the kingdom's oil is thought to be critical to the world economy and in particular to the prosperity of Japan, Europe, and the United States*. Not to mention Saudi holdings and investment in this country. My point being- its perfectly fine to call them enemies if you like- but when it comes right down to it, all that matters is the money- you can expect the kisses, hand holding, bows and warm greetings to continue as long as we need them as badly as we do. Nothing new. It may be demeaning, certainly to those who believe that this country always holds to a higher ideal. Nothing comes without its price. /dandyfop
Good response-
Ah, but then there is the boon of taxpayer money to pay for the war machine! Bombers and tanks cost major scratch and military contracts are like manna from heaven. It costs lots of money to fight those terrorists- and lots of people are made very, very rich. The same people win over and over- and the same people lose. Our country is perpetually at war with someone- it is very profitable for a few and very costly for everyone else. /dandyfop
Posted by: dandyfop
Date posted: Wed Oct 7 20:11:17 2009
Message:
Well, lets think about this one in brass tacks- what is more important to the future- even the immediate future- of our country- maintaining relations with China or the Dalai Lama? Who owns much of our debt?
What I think is the same thing is happening here as happens always. Economic survival trumps human rights. The reality is- if the President did this any other way and ended up jeopardizing relations with China- all hell could break loose.
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A very pragmatic view. And I happen to agree that we need a pragmatist rather than an idealist. However, IMO, President Obama presented himself as an ideaist who was going to effect ''change.''/mm
Well, mm, I don't know about you, but the prospect of pissing China off and having one of the only legs still holding up this wobbly table knocked out is not the sort of change I was expecting from Obama. Idealistic is not the word- the word would be suicidal. Its kind of hard to call China out on anything because A: they own us and B: We sort of lost any idea of high ground when we embraced torture. We simply can't afford to sit on high and judge other countries when those countries are writing the checks. I am plenty disappointed in Obama for his failure to push hard and deliver a public option on healthcare- but not for something like this. The position we are in leaves no room for choice./ dandyfop
I think it is a sad state of affairs that this once great nation has to kow-tow (allusion intended) to another country./mm
Dandy, your explanation of why President Obama did not meet with the Dalai Lama disturbed me. HOwever, I've been thinking about this and I think maybe there is another explanation. Perhaps it is because that the United States needs China's clout in order to sanction North Korea and Iran (especially North Korea) for their attempts to acquire nuclear weapons./mm
That reasoning saves face, doesn't it? And its more comforting to think we approach China as an equal and not a debtor. Nice thought- that will certainly sound better on tv. If you read financials- the news about the dollar is pretty grim- and the rumblings that world powers (including China) are planning to drop the dollar as the world reserve currency for oil in the next decade are back. Like Iraq and Iran have already done- and just look at how much we love them! Perhaps China might argue against such a change- after all, they probably want the money we eventually pay back to actually be worth something. But kissing China's a$$ to tag team our latest bogey-man does make better copy. I just don't believe it. /dandyfop
You certainly have a pessimistic view of things, Dandy. Guess we'd better all learn Chinese./mm
Dandyfop, I agree completely with your analysis of the situation. Obama inherited a terrible mess, and while I'm sure some will happily blame him for everything, this situation has been brewing for a very long time. Thanks for your intelligent input on the subject./ Cricket
Posted by: Wondering
Date posted: Wed Oct 7 18:29:07 2009
Message:
Just curious, since you always want others to voice their opinions on this kind of veiled political question, what do you think?
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I think it is very sad. But to be expected. It's politics as usual at the White House. Nothing has changed. I will give the President the benefit of the doubt and assume that this was a decision made by the advisors. And since I was nice enough to answer your question, can you tell me why you used the screen name Wondering?/mm
Gee, no response from Wondering. Oh well, I have a pretty good idea who he/she is anyway./mm
