Topic Posted by: Kate
Date Posted: Wed Apr 30 8:58:27 2008
Additional Comments:
New York Times: Cardinal Edward Egan posted a statement on the Archdiocese of New York's Web site stating that he and Giuliani had a "private agreement" that Giuliani would not receive Holy Communion -- then Giuliani violated the agreement by doing so at the April 19 Mass celebrated by Pope Benedict XVI at St. Patrick's Cathedral....because ... ( Guliani supports abortion rights )
Me: What? He shouldn't be taking communion anyway. The guy's been married multiple times! Where'd he take his instuctions?
New York Times: Giuliani is also twice-divorced and thrice-married. He never had his second marriage annulled and by church doctrine should not receive Holy Communion for that reason either.
Me: Wow! People of power sure can mess with the laws of my church. Does anyone here know how hard it is for the average person to have an annullment in the Catholic Church? Almost impossible. Unless you're Ted Kennedy. And why does Cardinal Egan not bounce Rudy about the divorce issue instead of his pro-choice choice? And "private agreement"? I don't remember anything about gettting ''agreement'' loopholes. What kind of nonsense is this?
Comments, Please.
Posted by: W Date posted: Thu May 1 2:23:11 2008
Message:
I think Rudy's safe! I just called my good buddy, Tony, and he told me Pope trumps Cardinal!
But Jesus' body was broken and blood shed to cover a multitude of sins, and his communion is for the forgiven-which EVERYONE is in need of. If anyone had to qualify on their own merit instead of his grace, then NO ONE would be worthy...and what of that little "He who has not sinned, cast the first stone" story?
Who are we to judge another persons worthiness or to watch another's conscience?-"let everyone work out their ownsalvation with fear and trembling" as the Bible says.
Now the Bible does admonish against taking it lightly or in an unworthy manner-but that is for an individual to decide or at least under advice of an ordained church leader. But it isn't for anyone's else's speculation nor under their authority to decide. Only God knows a man's heart.
Posted by: farmer brown Date posted: Wed Apr 30 16:02:47 2008
Message: I guess Jesus should be ex-communicated for that shameful Woman at the Well incident. (well documented in John, Chapter 4).
Posted by: JT Date posted: Wed Apr 30 15:45:43 2008
Message:
If it was a ''private agreement'' between Egan and Giuliani, then why is Egan going
public? I realize their agreement may not have been entered into under ''the seal of the confessional,'' but
shouldn't private agreements with one's priest remain private and any rebuke be private as well? .. IOW, because one is a ''public'' official allows the Church to make
you a ''public'' example ???
My brother-in-law is always arguing with me about this. He thinks that high-profile, pro-choice politicians (like Pelosi and Kennedy) and high-profile politicians with multiple marriage partners (like Rudy) should avoid taking communion. I think it's hogwash. I've served as a Eucharistic Minister on several different occasions, and I've never denied communion to someone who approached the altar. It doesn't matter to me if they're pro-choice, racist, divorced and remarried, known adulterers, or whatever -- if they come down the aisle in my lane, I always give them communion. I don't think it's up to the Eucharistic Minister to determine who's worthy (or unworthy) of receiving communion. It just ain't my job. If the communicant feels worthy of approaching the altar, I think it's my duty to serve him or her and smile warmly at them while holding up the Host and saying, "The Body of Christ." Whether or not they elect to come up the aisle is entirely up to them (and their conscience), in my humble opinion. I could never say to someone, "Sorry ... I think you're probably involved in a homosexual relationship ... and you never got an annulment from your wife ... and I heard that you voted pro-choice in the last election ... go sit back down, dammit. I ain't serving you." lol
Posted by: Midge Date posted: Wed Apr 30 12:42:54 2008
Message: Sounds about right.
Years ago, I decided to start using birth control, but I continued to attend Mass. When I would be off birth control and pregnant, I would take Communion, kidding myself into believing that maybe at some point the Church would become reasonable about it. Which of course, never happened.
However, in 1968, shortly after my fourth child was born, I reach another milestone, with the Church. It was VietNam and the death of the third young man I had grown up with. So, I looked toward the Berrigan Brothers and never looked back. Over the years, I didn't always agree with them, but I was a free agent. With the Church, no................you're either with them, or you're not. I'm not. I believe God sees it all "from a distance" and we "nobodies" can attempt to play games, but for the Church to try it???? As my son says, the epitome of hypocrisy.
Yeah, that whole communion thing and all of the rules are stupid. Even if I am in a Catholic church for a wedding or funeral, sometimes, I'll still take communion, just as my own little protest against the Church. Who are they to judge me, or anyone else, and deem us not fit to receive "the body of Christ," anyway? Besides, what I do in my own life, be it getting a divorce, having a abortion, "living in sin," or any of those other dumb rules that you're not supposed to break, is none of their business. Let 'em just try to regulate that!
Posted by: ingyandbert Date posted: Wed Apr 30 9:51:19 2008
Message: Well, clearly the rules aren't being enforced. As far as the annulment thing goes, it's not as difficult as you think. I've known several people who have done it in order to marry or remarry in the Catholic Church. You just have to follow the numerous steps.
Posted by: Peridot Date posted: Wed Apr 30 9:44:55 2008
Message: Kate, I agree that, if a church is going to have rules like this, they ought to be consistent about it. The rich and famous should follow the same standards as the little guy. And if I felt my church's rules were ones I couldn't follow in good conscience, I think I'd change churches.
Posted by: Cassies grandma Date posted: Wed Apr 30 9:14:02 2008
Message: Not being Catholic I really won't comment on whether he should take communion or not. But I do remember way back when Jackie O took communion after her divorce for Onassis. Or some such thing.
