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Topic: Ayers & Obama (political)


Topic Posted by: faysie
Date Posted: Fri Oct 10 22:04:46 2008
Additional Comments:

Not a radical group, and Ayers didn't run it

Pants on fire!

For most of the election, Sen. John McCain's campaign has been somewhat subtle about trying to tie Sen. Barack Obama to the former '60s radical William Ayers.

No longer. A 90-second Web ad released Oct. 8, 2008, features sinister music, side-by-side photographs of Obama and Ayers, and a series of dubious allegations about their past connections, including this one:

"Ayers and Obama ran a radical education foundation together."

(here's the final portion of the PolitiFact report):

In short, this was a mainstream foundation funded by a mainstream, Republican business leader and led by an overwhelmingly mainstream, civic-minded group of individuals. Ayers' involvement in its inception and on an advisory committee do not make it radical – nor does the funding of programs involving the United Nations and African-American studies.

This attack is false, but it's more than that – it's malicious. It unfairly tars not just Obama, but all the other prominent, well-respected Chicagoans who also volunteered their time to the foundation. They came from all walks of life and all political backgrounds, and there's ample evidence their mission was nothing more than improving ailing public schools in Chicago. Yet in the heat of a political campaign they have been accused of financing radicalism. That's Pants on Fire wrong.

The complete background and report is at: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/790/

Here's what FactCheck.org has to say:

"We find McCain's accusation that Obama "lied" to be groundless. It is true that recently released records show half a dozen or so more meetings between the two men than were previously known, but Obama never denied working with Ayers.

Other claims are seriously misleading. The education project described in the Web ad, far from being "radical," had the support of the Republican governor and was run by a board that included prominent local leaders, including one Republican who has donated $1,500 to McCain's campaign this year. The project is described by Education Week as reflecting "mainstream thinking" about school reform.

Despite the newly released records, there's still no evidence of a deep or strong "friendship" with Ayers, a former radical anti-war protester whose actions in the 1960s and '70s Obama has called "detestable" and "despicable."

Even the description of Ayers as a "terrorist" is a matter of interpretation.
Setting off bombs can fairly be described as terrorism even when they are intended to cause only property damage, which is what Ayers has admitted doing in his youth. But for nearly three decades since, Ayers has lived the relatively quiet life of an educator. It would be correct to call him a "former terrorist," and an "unapologetic" one at that. But if McCain means the word "terrorist" to invoke images of 9/11, he's being misleading; Ayers is no Osama bin Laden now, and never was.:

The complete report and background is at: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html

 





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Posted by: ML from DOOL
Date posted: Sat Oct 11 11:27:28 2008
Message:

I was 9 in early-1970. We lived in the suburbs of NYC. My dad was a salesman in Manhattan...had most of the New York City as his territory.

I remember the Weathermen's bombing of the judge's house over the freeing of Black Panther members. There also were bombs thrown at police cars in Manhattan that night and at Army recruiting stations in Brooklyn. Later, the Weathermen were planning other bombings...one for Columbia University...when something happened at their bomb factory in Greenwich Village and there was a massive explosion...thank God, they only bles 3 of themselves up with that one.

My grandfather watched Walter Cronkite every night...and coverage of these events were the first story. I fully reject that they were not terrorists. I was terrified that my dad went to NYC every day to make a living. The now-geriatric members of the Weathermen and Weather Underground now say they weren't trying to kill anybody. Right...that's why you set off nail bombs. I guess they were doing a construction experiment. And all in the name of trying to stop the violence in Vietnam. Right.

This doesn't even touch upon the other bombings that those losers committed in other parts of the nation. I'm talking about their effect on me personally. It was a very, very scary time.

William Ayers is exactly the same as Timothy McVeigh...except he's still breathing. Ask yourself...how happy would you be if your candidate wrote the forward of a book for Timothy McVeigh? How happy would you be if he/she had any affiliation of any kind with Timothy McVeigh?

The Weathermen/Weather Underground were absolute terrorists.

 

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  • Hi there ML from Dool! eom-shar from Dool
  • Yo, Shar....eom (ML)

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    Posted by: faysie
    Date posted: Sat Oct 11 9:25:48 2008
    Message:
    In Letter to 'NYT,' Man Who Prosecuted Weather Underground Hits Linking Ayers to Obama

    By Greg Mitchell

    Published: October 10, 2008 9:00 AM ET

    NEW YORK In a surprising a letter to the editor published in The New York Times today, the chief prosecutor of the Weather Underground in the 1970s expressed outrage over the linking of Barack Obama to Bill Ayers by the McCain campaign, adding, "Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen."

    William C. Ibershof also corrects a charge in the Times: "I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of 'prosecutorial misconduct.' It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director."

    Felt, of course (you may have already forgotten), was also known as a guy called "Deep Throat."

    As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.

    Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.

    Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.

    I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of “prosecutorial misconduct.” It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.

    William C. Ibershof
    Mill Valley, Calif., Oct. 8, 2008


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    Posted by: Rose Bush
    Date posted: Fri Oct 10 23:15:29 2008
    Message:

    Before anybody declares that the Ayres was not ever a real terrorist, perhaps we should listen to the effect Ayres activities had on his victims:

    http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0430jm.html and here is the cut & paste version:

    John M. Murtagh
    Fire in the Night
    The Weathermen tried to kill my family.
    30 April 2008

    During the April 16 debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, moderator George Stephanopoulos brought up “a gentleman named William Ayers,” who “was part of the Weather Underground in the 1970s. They bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol, and other buildings. He’s never apologized for that.” Stephanopoulos then asked Obama to explain his relationship with Ayers. Obama’s answer: “The notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was eight years old, somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn’t make much sense, George.” Obama was indeed only eight in early 1970. I was only nine then, the year Ayers’s Weathermen tried to murder me.

    In February 1970, my father, a New York State Supreme Court justice, was presiding over the trial of the so-called “Panther 21,” members of the Black Panther Party indicted in a plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores. Early on the morning of February 21, as my family slept, three gasoline-filled firebombs exploded at our home on the northern tip of Manhattan, two at the front door and the third tucked neatly under the gas tank of the family car. (Today, of course, we’d call that a car bomb.) A neighbor heard the first two blasts and, with the remains of a snowman I had built a few days earlier, managed to douse the flames beneath the car. That was an act whose courage I fully appreciated only as an adult, an act that doubtless saved multiple lives that night.

    I still recall, as though it were a dream, thinking that someone was lifting and dropping my bed as the explosions jolted me awake, and I remember my mother’s pulling me from the tangle of sheets and running to the kitchen where my father stood. Through the large windows overlooking the yard, all we could see was the bright glow of flames below. We didn’t leave our burning house for fear of who might be waiting outside. The same night, bombs were thrown at a police car in Manhattan and two military recruiting stations in Brooklyn. Sunlight, the next morning, revealed three sentences of blood-red graffiti on our sidewalk: FREE THE PANTHER 21; THE VIET CONG HAVE WON; KILL THE PIGS.

    For the next 18 months, I went to school in an unmarked police car. My mother, a schoolteacher, had plainclothes detectives waiting in the faculty lounge all day. My brother saved a few bucks because he didn’t have to rent a limo for the senior prom: the NYPD did the driving. We all made the best of the odd new life that had been thrust upon us, but for years, the sound of a fire truck’s siren made my stomach knot and my heart race. In many ways, the enormity of the attempt to kill my entire family didn’t fully hit me until years later, when, a father myself, I was tucking my own nine-year-old John Murtagh into bed.

    Though no one was ever caught or tried for the attempt on my family’s life, there was never any doubt who was behind it. Only a few weeks after the attack, the New York contingent of the Weathermen blew themselves up making more bombs in a Greenwich Village townhouse. The same cell had bombed my house, writes Ron Jacobs in The Way the Wind Blew: A History of the Weather Underground. And in late November that year, a letter to the Associated Press signed by Bernardine Dohrn, Ayers’s wife, promised more bombings.

    As the association between Obama and Ayers came to light, it would have helped the senator a little if his friend had at least shown some remorse. But listen to Ayers interviewed in the New York Times on September 11, 2001, of all days: “I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.” Translation: “We meant to kill that judge and his family, not just damage the porch.” When asked by the Times if he would do it all again, Ayers responded: “I don’t want to discount the possibility.”

    Though never a supporter of Obama, I admired him for a time for his ability to engage our imaginations, and especially for his ability to inspire the young once again to embrace the political system. Yet his myopia in the last few months has cast a new light on his “politics of change.” Nobody should hold the junior senator from Illinois responsible for his friends’ and supporters’ violent terrorist acts. But it is fair to hold him responsible for a startling lack of judgment in his choice of mentors, associates, and friends, and for showing a callous disregard for the lives they damaged and the hatred they have demonstrated for this country. It is fair, too, to ask what those choices say about Obama’s own beliefs, his philosophy, and the direction he would take our nation.

    At the conclusion of his 2001 Times interview, Ayers said of his upbringing and subsequent radicalization: “I was a child of privilege and I woke up to a world on fire.”

    Funny thing, Bill: one night, so did I.

    John M. Murtagh is a practicing attorney, an adjunct professor of public policy at the Fordham University College of Liberal Studies, and a member of the city council in Yonkers, New York, where he resides with his wife and two sons.

    There is a double-standard operating on this board. If Ayres were supporting McCain and the GOP, you'd be frothing about McCain being in bed with real terrrorists. But because it is Golden Boy Obama, and Ayres is a fundraiser for the Democrats, it's OK. You are even making excuses for this Ayres who, by any standard, must have a deep personality flaw if he can't even renounce his violent past.

    Incidentally, I don't think there is a connection between Ayres and Obama over the Board they both sat on. The connection is that Ayres helped Obama in the 1990s by inviting him to his home to "meet people" who could help Obama's career, and later fund-raising for Obama. Obama has made light of this connection, but it should carry the same weight as the Bush family's connection to the Bin Laden family and the assistance they gave them to leave the USA in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

    Replies: (list all replies)

  • Just think. Between defending Sarah Palin's animal slaughtering and now comparing Obama to bin Laden, you could have saved so much time and space by simply admitting you're a Mccain supporter. LOL Cheers and Tally-ho. MarieH
  • I compared Obama to Bin Laden? Can you even read? I compared Ayres to Bin Laden! Oh yeah...I am a McCain supporter. Sure thing. Y'know, four years ago I was getting flamed for supporting Kerry, and now I am getting flamed for pointing out that it is not up to Obama sycophants to determine whether or not Ayres is a real terrorist, that it is up to the Ayres' victims to make the call. Y'know, I can't wait until this election is over because as soon as it is done, posters like you, MarieH, will vapourise and we will be relieved of your presence for another four years.....Rose Bush....eom
  • Maybe people are accusatory because of the crotchety way you come across. Work on that Rosie. MarieH
  • If I confused your message - well what can I say? I guess I don't read any better than you know how to be civil. MarieH
  • Rose Bush, there is the same double standards on conservative websites. Anything McCain and Palin do is okay and is rationalized so it is not just on this board. eom Sierra
  • I agree with your post Sierra, but I think Rose is already well aware of the double standard.. I think she just woke up, checked the board and decided on someone to make the recipient of her inflammatory remarks. The recipient happened to be me. Hopefully her voracious attack appetite is now sated and she'll leave everyone else alone. MarieH
  • OMG, I have tears streaming down my face from laughing so hard at you people that are saying RB is for McCain. Sorry all of you poor dear people, but she is just being fair and stating the facts. You can state facts without being for the other side. Not everything is as black and white, good and evil as you seem to all think. I really can't believe how you're turning on RB.
  • Sierra, when you see unreasonable and untrue criticism of Obama, don't you chime in and say something? Haven't you railed against the ''double standard'' applied by Conservatives? You have. So have I. I happen to think it is important to be consistent, so if somebody posts something in support of the Democrats that I don't agree with, I am going to say so. If that brings on a wave of criticism from people who once thought I was on their side (and in reality, still am), then so be it. I will be going offline for a little while now to study the MarieH method of civility. From what I have seen, it will take me all of 10 seconds to master her technique.....Rose Bush....eom
  • Just how many times did that kangaroo kick you in the head, RB?

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    Posted by: moe
    Date posted: Fri Oct 10 22:39:19 2008
    Message:

    Here's a bit more to add to your fact-checking:

    In Letter to 'NYT,' Man Who Prosecuted Weather Underground Hits Linking Ayers to Obama

    By Greg Mitchell

    Published: October 10, 2008

    NEW YORK In a surprising a letter to the editor published in The New York Times today, the chief prosecutor of the Weather Underground in the 1970s expressed outrage over the linking of Barack Obama to Bill Ayers by the McCain campaign, adding, "Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen."

    William C. Ibershof also corrects a charge in the Times: "I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of 'prosecutorial misconduct.' It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director."

    Felt, of course (you may have already forgotten), was also known as a guy called "Deep Throat."

    The full letter follows.

    *
    As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.

    Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.

    Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.

    I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of “prosecutorial misconduct.” It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.

    William C. Ibershof
    Mill Valley, Calif., Oct. 8, 2008


     

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  • Oops, I forgot to add the link to Greg Mitchell's page! Here it is: Editor & Publisher ...moe
  • So upper crust Ayres, the unrepentent terrorist, is free to become a good and responsible citizen on his own. No jail time? No public outcry? Geez, I bet OJ wishes he could cut the same break, being allowed to become a good citizen in his own time without the whole country thinking he should be paying for his crimes one way or another....Rose Bush....eom
  • Ayres and his wife turned themselves in after years on the run. They served no jail time because 'prosecutorial misconduct' resulted in dismissal of all federal charges - the FBi really screwed this one up..........tomorrow
  • RoseBush...I happen to think that both of our candidates are ''in bed with real terrorists'' and that would be the government of my own country. I don't go for the war-mongering that has been done throughout this entire hideous campaign and that goes for the promoting of bigotry, both racism & sexism, nation-building, pre-emptive striking, sanction quests, ''democracy-spreading'', & rah rah USA bullcrap. As to Ayers, the guy & his wife were blowhards back then, opportunistic lunatics who made it their mission to put a permanent black mark on folk who sincerely worked for positive change in the movement. Personally, because of the deep infiltration that the FBI had in so many groups back then, my suspicions lie along the lines that both Dohrn & Ayers were COINTEL employees. They never killed anybody, they never tried to kill anybody, but they succeeded in making many think that was the sole intention of the true leftists in this country...moe
  • Ayres and his wife Dohrn did not turn themselves in. After a series of bombings, they disappeared and then resurfaced a decade later. Ayres and his miserable Missus have never repented for their past actions, which makes me wonder why the Democratic Party wants anything to do with them. Money talks, I guess. What a strange society they inhabit when two people, especially him, engaged in activities of setting bombs and terrorising their own country men, they pay no social price for this behaviour but all is forgiven because he is now a ''respectable'' professor. Geez, Obama picks his friends and patrons well - an unrepentent terrorist and a slum lord! I bet McCain couldn't get away with having such low slung friends.....Rose Bush....eom
  • Rose Bush, correct if my memory is faulty here, but didn't you condemn GWBush all during his administrations? Didn't you knock your own conservative leader Howard for sending troops to Iraq and his own conservative agenda? If that is the case, how can you support GWB2 aka McCain? He's Bush in every way possible and the fact that his running mate makes GWB look smart and is so anti woman that it's appalling, why would you support a ticket that headlines Bush 2 and a woman that kills animals from planes for sport, (I thought you were an animal lover), incites violence in her campaign speeches (kill Obama the terrorist, Muslim), who can't speak in logical sentences, and who advocates war with Iran and Russia. Please Rose Bush, I thought you hated Bush for the same philosophy. If I'm mistaken and you supported Bush all this time, I'm sorry for the mistaken impression I have of you. Elaine
  • I quote from a letter of October 10th/08 in NYT: ''The chief prosecutor of the Weather Underground in the 1970s expressed outrage over the linking of Barack Obama to Bill Ayers by the McCain campaign, adding,''Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.'' William C. Ibershof also corrects a charge in the Times: ''I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of 'prosecutorial misconduct.'' It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.''Felt, of course (you may have already forgotten), was also known as a guy called''Deep Throat''. For link, come inside.
  • You are correct Elaine. I have been a strident critic of the Bush administration, and remain so. I am critical here of fantatics of either political persuasion who come on this board and say outrageous and unsubstantiated things. How does that help rational debate? In this case, it is the recently arrived MarieH who just froths about anything GOP, but in this case it is Sarah Palin. If somebody were saying similar things about Obama and Biden, I would be criticising them too, as I have with DianeR and Paige on a number of topics. I do not think Obama is a particularly good candidate. Sure, he has charisma, but that is not enough. He lacks any substance, but you will never get his fans to admit that is true. It is only because he is facing such a lame candidate in McCain that he looks good. Somehow, miraculously, Obama is seen as having strength in his understanding of the economy. Dear God! This illustrates my point perfectly - in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Obama's many failings, and particularly his murky political past in Chicago, are whitewashed by his fans. Just because I am not supportive of Bush - the worst US President in history - don't imagine I am going to jump on the bandwagon of the next half-baked Democratic candidate that swings by. Quite seriously, any party that could endorse a hypocrite and liar like Al Gore as a Presidential candidate has got serious problems. And the worst thing is that Obama will probably put a turd like Gore in his Cabinet. This is what worries me the most. The funny thing is that because I am not supportive of any of the candidates, I am now on the outer with just about everybody on this board. I am a bipartisan Persona non grata. lol....Rose Bush.....eom
  • RoseBush, why do you say that about Al Gore? I'd seriously like to know. /faysie
  • Faysie, because of that work of fiction An inconvenient truth. It is riddled with errors which he will not correct. He struts the world in his private jet telling the rest of us to reduce our emissions. Oh yeah, that's right...he ''offsets''...into a company he set up himself for his own financial benefit. How neat. He is like some hyped up Amway Sales recruit who signs up his deciples to go and spread his message about AGW, but a big part of the message is to keep schtum about being a Gore deciple (somebody I know attended one of his workshops in Sydney and was disgusted by the conivance). Quite frankly, the man is a fake who has got on the AGW bandwagon to salve his massive ego now that his opportunity to do this in Politics (with a capital P) has bypassed him....Rose Bush...eom

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    Posted by: faysie
    Date posted: Fri Oct 10 22:08:44 2008
    Message:
    My apologies.  I must be tired. LOL.  I just realized that this is duplicating what MarieH has in her thread just a couple up from this. (Sorry....)

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